How do you feel about using antlers or other animal products in ritual if the person found them while taking a walk in the woods?
I wouldn't use them regardless. I feel that I don't know how the animal died, what kind of energy the found item holds, etc. But, I have heard people at rituals claim to have "fallen antlers" and other "found" items, and that they had nothing to do with hurting/killing anyone.
I think if someone found something they can use it if they want to, no problem. But for me, I don't feel comfortable using it myself.
What are your opinions?
I wouldn't use them regardless. I feel that I don't know how the animal died, what kind of energy the found item holds, etc. But, I have heard people at rituals claim to have "fallen antlers" and other "found" items, and that they had nothing to do with hurting/killing anyone.
I think if someone found something they can use it if they want to, no problem. But for me, I don't feel comfortable using it myself.
What are your opinions?
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Pittsburgh
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Mon, February 21, 2005 - 7:14 PMThis can be a problem for some. Antlers, in general, are shed yearly, by the bucks. So not necessarily did someone die. I guess the question would be, "Would the ritual be less effective if I replaced the antler with a real interesting piece of wood (or something else)?" -
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Sat, February 26, 2005 - 1:24 AMOh! I didn't know that they shed antlers every year, and don't always die to lose antlers. I'm glad I know that now.
Hmm...I guess that eases my worries a little for some occasions, but the whole thing still freaks me out...I like your question of "Would the ritual be less effective if I replaced the antler with a real interesting piece of wood (or something else)?"
The more I think of it, I guess there have been times when veg. pagans I know may have used antlers but if a person is already veg. then I trust that what they have on their altar is veg-friendly, and feel comfortable. -
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Sun, February 27, 2005 - 10:33 PMIt depends on your intention for the ritual tool. I have a ritual knife from Alaska that is made from (natural-annually-shed) Caribou antler and the blade was made from an old saw blade. It is constructed entirely from found objects.
It is powerful for me because of the caribou energy (no caribou were harmed or harassed in the making of this object), and also because it is environmentally sound being made from recycled steel. And I grew up in Alaska and this type of knife is like a childhood root for me.
If I wanted to work with tree energy rather than caribou energy, then a wood ritual tool would be more effective and appropriate.
Out of curiosity, what posting was deleted? -
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Sun, February 27, 2005 - 10:41 PMI also wanted to mention feathers . . . I have some ritual objects that are based on feathers that were dropped from the vultures that roost annually on a property in California that I do ritual on, and that will be my home after April.
The birds stay there for a season and preen, and they drop their feathers when they moult. This is a totally natural and painless process (just like when we lose hair in the shower, right) and we consider these dropped objects to be gifts from these magnificent and huge creatures. I don't have any problem using them in ritual tools, and I think this is totally different from buying feathers from plucked birds, where the feathers are either stolen or taken from the dead body.
The lesson I suppose here is to not make any judgements or assumptions about people and their ritual items. I find that natural items resonate with magical energy much more than plastic and artificially created items (yech!), and especially when thinking about totems and working with animal spirits an otherwise vegan person might make slightly different choices when it comes to their tools and ju ju.
I have one vegan friend who will only use a wood rattle and will not touch anything animal, and won't hug people wearing leather. I think that unfortunately this separates him from other people and he is less able to connect with others and join into the group energy. He'll probably have to work with other uber-vegan pagans who do totally vegan ritual and music to really feel comfortable and get into it.
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Mon, February 28, 2005 - 2:18 PMI like the bird feather idea, too. Thanks again for helping me clear my mind about these issues.
Liz wrote:
>>The lesson I suppose here is to not make any judgements or assumptions about people and their ritual items. I find that natural items resonate with magical energy much more than plastic and artificially created items (yech!), and especially when thinking about totems and working with animal spirits an otherwise vegan person might make slightly different choices when it comes to their tools and ju ju.
My response:
You made some great points! Thanks!
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Mon, February 28, 2005 - 2:16 PMWow! I'm so happy to hear about your ritual knife! That's so nice!
You all are helping me to understand more about found items, and now I feel like they are fine to use, and actually would be really neat. Thanks for helping me clear that issue up in my mind.
Oh, about a deleted posting--it was something I wrote myself, and then realized it was just a waste of a post...I can't remember exactly now, but it was something that just didn't say much.
I won't delete anyone's postings unless it's anti-vegan or something...I want everyone to speak freely and know I won't delete what they say (as long as not mean and anti-vegan)...I decided to moderate the group just incase any anti-vegans come in and post rude stuff, since I've had problems with that in the past on other websites.
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Mon, February 28, 2005 - 2:45 PMCool, good to know. I've encountered a few moderators who delete dissenting postings, even made respectfully, and I like to know when I am in an environment where it is okay to offer different perspectives without being censored.
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Sun, March 6, 2005 - 6:55 AMive used animal parts all my life and couldnt imagine not using them. except for my catholic and early vegan years. the former because paganism was oppressed by the doctrine of my family/school/church. the latter because of my horror over the treatment of animals. however it was always the case that if i find something its often more that its found me and working with it helps me appreciate and respect the creature it comes from.
i also wear leather and let me tell you ive had some discussions about that. i usually do a whole ritual around the garment and a journey to meet the animal or animals it comes from. i need to be at peace with the beast before i can move on. i get a massive amount of understanding from working with animals and working with fur, bone, hair, hoof, skin are something i feel i need to challenge myself on. its my way of making connection.
i spent my hard core vegan years (the first 10) fighting againt it and being very anti-leather. what i realised myself was that i was missing an important connection. i dont need to eat meat or animal products but i need the tactile communion, maybe that will change in time? anyway, i cant keep a deer in my london flat but i have antlers, i work with stag who is my dearest friend and companion. in this way i can work as i need to and i dont feel like im living in fear of being judged for who i am.
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Re: Using found antlers in ritual
Sat, November 12, 2005 - 6:40 AMAs far as wearing leather goes, I believe you are not connecting with the animal by wearing leather, atleast not in a positive way. Even if you have a ritual to "Make Peace" with the animal, you are not really making peace. It's comparable to hitting a child and saying "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to" and then hitting him again. Leather coats are products of violence.
I think you should really think about what you are doing. Using found objects, I've learned (thank you all for the information!) seems to be a wonderful way to connect with animals! Isn't that enough for you? You could also use photos of animals that you take yourself. If you really want to wear animal objects, you can wear the found objects. Leather coats are not found objects, they are products of violence produced to financially support the people who killed the animals, nothing spiritual about them.
I guess if you really want to wear leather coats, maybe you should buy them from the thrift store? Maybe I'm missing something, do you already do that? Do you get your coats from the thrift store? For me myself, that would not be an option, since wearing it still tells others (who don't know where you got the coat) that you feel it's fine to buy from leather stores. But, buying used items from a thrift store and getting use out of them rather than letting them go to waste is an issue I've heard people discuss often. Although, the people I know who have done that would put a sticker on their coats "Reduce, RE-USE and Recycle" or something like that...or would just donate them to homeless people.
You wrote "i usually do a whole ritual around the garment and a journey to meet the animal or animals it comes from. i need to be at peace with the beast before i can move on."...
If I were the spirit of a factory-farmed animal and some guy called my spirit to tell me "I'm sorry I payed for your death, but this jacket is cool and I wanted to meet you"...Um...Need I say more? It wouldn't exacty put the guy "at peace" with me.
There are plenty of other ways to connect with animals, more positive ways. Please think about what you are doing.
Great article, if you would please take the time to read it:
www.farmsanctuary.org/newslet...r_05.htm
Peace,
Amethyst
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